Nic @ Yardage Design
23 Apr 2012 at 11:01 am
Nicely said. It would also be tops if they could get rid of weird spam people … Pinterest is a great idea, but needs more rigour (sadly) to stop the small proportion of losers ruining it for everyone else. Rant over!
23 Apr 2012 at 11:37 am
I agree – although having to fill in boxes might cross with the spontaneity of it all. I do get frustrated when I try and follow a source and you just get a blog with no direct link or it’s come from the pinners own source with a dead end link. When I pin, I do try and link from the original source or give a mention, but admit I can be hasty sometimes and not check. Pinterest should take note and act to make it a better working sourcebook for all concerned (and yes, rid the spamming nasties that are creeping in) Glad you brought it up Heather, your work is very pin-able and rightly so should be given credit where credit’s due. HX
23 Apr 2012 at 2:19 pm
I am so glad you said it. I agree 100%
col @ hello olive
23 Apr 2012 at 3:21 pm
I’ve also been using Pinterest less and less these days. I would love to hear their response to all these posts and articles about them modifying the site a bit, as there has been so much about it on the web lately. x
23 Apr 2012 at 4:51 pm
I always try to pin from original sources, but this is a good reminder to make sure I include the name of that source in my text too.
Another great on-site solution would be to pull in the URL into the text in some way — wouldn’t be perfect as not everyone goes with original sources, but it would definitely be a start for those that don’t add the info on their own. And maybe seeing those URLs would motivate people to change their behaviour.
23 Apr 2012 at 5:04 pm
Hmm, I don’t know what your saying. Underneath all my pics is the web address to where they were pinned from. Isn’t that what your asking for, credit?
23 Apr 2012 at 5:06 pm
Lots of people don’t put anything under the pics they pin, so there is no reference as to who made the item / where it comes from / who took the photo, all of which are important copyright issues. It’s great that you are including the URL in your pins. Thanks!
23 Apr 2012 at 5:24 pm
i had a rant a few weeks ago here too heather: http://mrseliotbooks.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/favour-and-minor-rant.html
maybe i should send it to the pinterest office too. i think a mandatory credit box is the way forward.
ps i pinned your lovely new fabric from your blog the other day, credited you of course but neglected the photographer – maybe it was you too?! anyway, let me know here and i’ll gladly add the photographer too. x
24 Apr 2012 at 8:20 am
Keep on ranting! 🙂
23 Apr 2012 at 6:04 pm
I agree with you. When I find a photo I love I try to find the source but it isn’t always possible. Credit is due where credit is due!
23 Apr 2012 at 6:56 pm
What do you and/or other artists hope to gain by having your work credited back to you? I could understand if there was some sort of commerce attached to the act of pinning, but there isn’t. I would also be more understanding if perhaps your artwork/photos were being pinned as being produced by someone else. Asking for rigorous pinning standards sounds like artists want free publicity. Why are pinners the ones that have to give it to you?
24 Apr 2012 at 8:19 am
Gwen, this comment from you made me feel quite despondent, as I’m afraid it reflects a lot of peoples’ attitude. The fact is that whoever has made the image has spent time, money and energy doing so, and it is not only polite to acknowledge this, but also legally required, as the time, effort and money that went into making that image means that the person who made it actually OWNS it. It is not about ‘free publicity’, it is about giving due credit. And, I must add, that I have had my work copied, and when I challenged the people copying it, they said they found the image on the internet and thought it didn’t belong to anyone. Which is a horribly prevalent belief. Instead of resenting people who would like their efforts to be acknowledged, why not add to the improvement of the internet community by taking the time to find out who the image belongs to?
24 Apr 2012 at 11:19 pm
Heather, you’re making a ton of assumptions about me and how I pin. I’m not denying that you work very, very hard producing your artwork, textiles and photographs (and it’s all very beautiful work, I might add). I’m not at all denying that you have a right to have your work credited. Nor did I say I resented you or any other artist for wanting credit. But crediting work does not preclude people from copying it. And assuming that those pinners who have boards filled with images that inspire them are going to turn around and copy you is very uninspiring. Perhaps asking Pinterest to help educate people on copyright issues, rather than making it more difficult to pin, is a better course of action. We might have differing opinions on Pinterest’s culpability on this matter, but that doesn’t mean we can discuss it frankly and respectfully.
24 Apr 2012 at 11:20 pm
Sorry, that last sentence should read “..but that doesn’t mean we CAN’T discuss it frankly…”
25 Apr 2012 at 6:57 am
What do you expect to gain when you introduce yourself to others? Maybe you expect them to remember your name and your face… so later they’ll know you from Tom, Dick and Harry.
Sad for you.
25 Apr 2012 at 6:09 pm
That’s a strange analogy because it’s not like I introduce myself to others and then expect them to write down my name, my age and where I live. If I want them to remember those things, generally it’s my responsibility to set up a system so they can, like giving them a business card.
My point is just that the onus seems to be on the visual consumer to do this work to please the artist and ensure that more people recognize the artist (ie, publicity) rather than the artist setting up a system of reaching out to consumers so they recognize them. I mean, not knowing anything about me or how I pin, Heather has called me lazy and resentful, but don’t you think that making your consumers do your publicity for you is lazy? And don’t you think that saying negative things about someone who has purchased your goods in the past is also really bad publicity, especially when they’ve had nothing but really positive things to say about their work?
There have been some really good suggestions on this post about how you can watermark your images and/or label them in such a way that consumers can identify them as belonging to you. I know it’s a really sad state of affairs when people copy original artwork, or people don’t give credit to artists, but artists need to find a way to work with the current circumstances.
And please stop assuming that I am personally the one who’s wildly going around pinning stuff without giving credit. I just want to start a discussion with artists about how their publicity processes might need to change with new technology, much like how the music industry had to change with the advent of music sharing websites.
25 Apr 2012 at 8:49 pm
An image that is disconnected from the creators name has no value to the creator. There are no royalties. An artists gains nothing from free floating images in the vacuum of internet. It’s not promotion. It’s not asking for validation. It’s common curtesy and respect for someones time and talent.
It isn’t just my professional opinion, it’s a legal opinion.
Asking people to credit is educating them about copyright.
23 Apr 2012 at 7:18 pm
I’ve found myself slipping back on to Pinterest since they reworded their T&Cs and am generally quite diligent at crediting, but jeez, the number of pins that I want to pin but lead to Tumblr and the black hole of copyright that that leads to!
Also, if I see my own work pinned but not credited, I’ve taken to asking for it to be amended. Mostly people are obliging.
But mandatory fields has to be the way to go really. Pinterest is a phenomenally useful tool – it has the potential to be bigger than Google if you ask me. I already search for things on there before I look on Google.
25 Apr 2012 at 8:42 am
Thanks, Flora! I also find myself back on Pinterest quite often, despite my queasiness about it. And I’ve also taken to adding a comment to pins of my work, telling them who made it and where to find the url. /xx
24 Apr 2012 at 1:48 am
I think the problem is that the vast majority of the millions on pinterest are not involved in that way, myself included. To them it’s really like a pinboard or a moodboard. A lot of physical moodboards are only about the idea and not about the actual item. If you add details like who took the photo, i think pinterest would lose a lot of it’s users who are making up the target audience of what is developing itself into a marketing tool. Like something, pin it. Others may click through and be triggered to buy it too. Unfortunately, I believe the commercial case is necessary to maintain a tool that is also used for creative sharing, even if the creative sharing was the original use case. I think they could probably only solve this by adding the url with title themselves to ensure that the person’s source doesn’t get cut out. But this would only be about the source and not necessarily about the originator.
24 Apr 2012 at 8:07 am
I do think you’re right. Pinterest would lose a lot of pinners – those who don’t care where the thing came from, just who made it. Still, who knows. My hope is that perhaps if Pinterest requires at least one field to be filled in, the issue of origin would begin to dawn as a possibility to consider in pinners’ minds. Just a hope!
24 Apr 2012 at 5:54 am
I know, it’s so hard to see your work go uncredited. Some changes I have made – I watermark my own images. I add my own images with credit info underneath. If I see my images on there (and I check using pinterest.com/source/URL), I add a comment under the image with credit info. It would be really great if Pinterest automatically included the domain of the URL under the image (at least), to provide some context. I think if they asked for photographer info they would lose a lot of users, unfortunately.
One really big issue is that a lot of people just pin the URL of the image, not the URL of the page that the image sits on. Then when you click on the image, it takes you to the image by itself (not the website it came from). It can then be tough to find the original source. If Pinterest could prevent pinning URL’s that end in .jpg, .gif, .png etc, that would solve a lot of issues.
Thanks for bringing it up Heather! (and I found this on Pinterest 😉 )
24 Apr 2012 at 8:05 am
Thanks for your input, Steph!
25 Apr 2012 at 1:10 am
Brilliant – thought you would appreciate the email I just received from Pinterest… they are onto it!
We removed one (or more) of your Repins as a result of a complaint from the copyright owner.
The content was originally pinned from the following address by another user without permission:
Most sites welcome Pinning since it results in traffic, but occasionally a site prefers users don’t share their content. To respect copyrights and protect users, we remove Pins and Repins when we receive complaints of copyright infringement.
As a best practice, users should not Pin content that is clearly marked with a copyright without permission. If you have any questions on our policy, see our Pin Etiquette or email email@example.com.
Thanks for using Pinterest.
– The Pinterest Team
Pinterest DMCA #ID 156827373
25 Apr 2012 at 8:44 am
That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing it here. It’s good to know that they do take action, but for me the issue is not about whether people pin my images with or without permission (of course I’m happy to see them shared!), but whether there is anything in that pin that links the work back to me. I do believe that Pinterest is thinking about all these things, and I have my fingers crossed that they’ll come up with a good solution soon. xx
25 Apr 2012 at 11:30 pm
I agree! I think I’ll let them know about my genius no-pinning-just-images solution 😉
24 Apr 2012 at 4:42 pm
It’s an interesting dilemma that I have heard many arguments on both sides of the issue. I think in the end it is impossible to police the web for images that have been copied and used in a way that is not intended. Its not a good thing, it is frustrating and absolutely illegal but honestly…there is nothing that can be done about it. I’m sure there are 10 more Pinterest type web sites that you will soon hear about and then another 20 behind that. Stopping any one of them from publishing copyrighted material or requiring their users to include photography credits etc. may be a battle won but then there will just be 10 more web sites to take on.
on a side note – if you want to see where your images are being used try Google’s “search by image” : http://bit.ly/HvtL05
(I find this Google app amazing)
The downside is if you find someone is using your images you will now spend more of your day fretting over the issue, writing nasty emails and feeling pissed off when in the end I don’t know that it really gets you anywhere.
Just my 2 cents.
love your store and you have a great design aesthetic!
24 Apr 2012 at 5:08 pm
Thanks for your comment, and I do think your pragmatic attitude is probably the sensible one to take if you don’t want to turn into a nervous wreck 🙂
I visited your site and loved what I saw. Thanks so much for popping in to my blog and taking the time to leave a thoughtful comment.
26 Apr 2012 at 6:33 am
Thank you Heather!
24 Apr 2012 at 8:59 pm
very well said.
25 Apr 2012 at 6:54 am
THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT!!!!
It just amazes me that this isn’t done yet!
And… NOT INVOLVED IN THAT WAY… is a lame 2 cent exuse if I ever heard one. Not involved in proper crediting? Not involved in carrying that someone spent time and put love in? Not involved in giving damn? People really let me down sometimes.
Lazy hands of millions of people falling down around the world… “Oh well… nothing can be done”. So lame.
Love that your wrote it out, Heather!
25 Apr 2012 at 8:40 am
Isn’t it peculiar that both here and on Facebook, people will take the time to justify exactly why they can’t be arsed to find a couple of extra seconds to cut and paste the name/url of the person who made the image that they claim to ‘love’ enough to pin on Pinterest. Why put so much energy into justifying your laziness? Consistency, people, please!
This is something of a losing battle, I’m sure, but personally, I’m going to do my best not to cut anyone’s work adrift on a sea of anonymous online images. I hope more people start thinking this way too.
26 Apr 2012 at 1:35 am
Of course I had to Pin this! Hopefully others have too, and it will generate buzz.
I think it goes beyond Pinterest, though. I don’t blame them for their structure, as the entire world wide web is full of (social networking) sites where there is no regard to the ownership of a photograph, a piece of art, an idea, etc. Look at Tumblr and We Heart It – filled to the brim with reblogged/rehearted images that are *very* rarely sourced back to its originator.
It would have been pretty darn amazing if the people behind Pinterest invoked the ideas put forth in your letter at the start. Imagine! All those Pins out there linking back to the actual source – and beyond that, with actual details of the images/ideas. Crazy!
I think of myself as a thoughtful Pinner – I go as far as clicking on anything I rePin to track down its source. Mind you, sometimes it’s nigh impossible to find such a thing, but I try.
thanks for writing this, Heather! you took the words right out of my mouth.
p.s. I would also love it if Pinterest would give the user more control over their accounts (hiding comments, not allowing automatic adding to someone’s group board, etc.) – but that’s another letter.
26 Apr 2012 at 12:54 pm
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment, and for being a thoughtful Pinner! I must say, I am starting to see more and more people (that I follow, at least) being more assiduous about acknowledging the source, which is great!
30 Apr 2012 at 12:19 am
Get the word out. A photographer friend of mine has hundreds of works that are registered with the US Copyright office. He boasts that the courts will easily award him up to $150,000 per image on Pinterest. He has hired lawyers and they will strike within a few weeks. He’s already planning his retirement as a millionaire.
He specializes in infant and toddler fashion and craft photographs. Crochet hats, knitted booties, baby blankets, baby toys and products… ladies’ fashion crafts too… hats, scarves, sweaters… embroidery… he’s been working for magazines for years… also books… Kaffe Fassett stuff…
Hurry up and protect yourself, at least remove the baby fashion pictures, that’s 80% of his trade.
30 Apr 2012 at 9:37 am
Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch. Please could you let me know more about this issue, as it is worrysome, but also is hard to assess whether it’s a real matter, or just a rumour. Do you have the photographer’s name, perhaps?
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